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Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

#1 2008-10-01 15:16:59

homewitch
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From: Cumberland, VA, USA
Registered: 2008-10-01
Posts: 6
Website

Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

Hi all,

I've used papier mache a lot over the years, but never for anything that required any fine finishing.  Right now I'm making a wall hanging/mobile thingie for my best friend, and I want it to be a lot more polished looking by the time I'm ready to paint it.

I don't know if there is a way to post a picture here yet, so I'll try to describe it (if that will even help!)  It's a double-backed spiral, the top one being larger than the lower, and has some pretty tight turns.  I don't have any experience with PM mulch, although now that I actually *know* about it, I guess that would have been a better idea... so I used strips of newspaper.  Because of the tight turns, it was really hard to get the strips on there without gaps; I smoothed these down and got all the air out, both when I first applied the strips and then again another couple of times as they got a little drier.  In other words, there aren't a whole bunch of poking-up places, but it's definitely not as smooth as I'd like it to be.

I don't know if sanding is the way to go.. or if I should try something else.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated... I really want this to look nice enough that my friend won't feel he needs to hide it in a closet someplace until I come and visit!

Thanks in advance!

Sunny

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#2 2008-10-01 18:20:37

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

Sanding is probably your best choice.  If you only have fairly minor imperfections, use a finer grit.  Be sure to use a sanding block or even an appropriately-sized block of wood wrapped with the sandpaper, as fingers alone can't exert enough pressure to do a smooth job.

Sue

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#3 2008-10-01 18:55:03

homewitch
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From: Cumberland, VA, USA
Registered: 2008-10-01
Posts: 6
Website

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

Thanks for the reply!

But... oooh.  It's pretty small and not very... strong?  I guess?  If I have to push down a lot, will it not warp?  Or crack?  I've had no experience with this, as you can tell.

I do have an electric sander (small Black & Decker).  If I were to use a corner of that, would it work?

I also read a little while ago, someplace, that using printer paper strips can give things a "smoother finish."  Think I should give it one more layer?  It's completely opposite of my instinctive idea, which was to use *thinner* paper (like tissue or phone book pages) for another layer...

Even if I do wind up sanding, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the paper thickness.  I am having *so* much fun with this that I'm sure I'll be doing a lot more in the very near future!  I also ran into some guidelines for making paper mache sculptures that can actually be placed outside in the elements... how much fun could I have with THAT, being as I live out in the middle of nowhere, nobody can complain about anything in my yard, and I once begged my husband via cell phone to be allowed to buy a $3000 fountain with goddess heads on it??  smile

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#4 2008-10-02 06:39:09

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

If you have to press down, I would have some kind of support under the part that is being sanded, a book, a brick, a solid piece of wood, etc.  If it is light and delicate, you'll have to work very carefully.  If it is light and delicate, a power sander may rip the piece apart.  If access to parts of the piece is difficult, maybe gluing sandpaper to a stick or old spoon or knife would help.

I don't understand exactly what you are making. The choice of additional layers or change of paper must be up to you.

Before planning on putting any PM out in the weather, be sure to read site owner Jackie's article on sealers (see top of the page "Articles" or click on http://www.papiermache.co.uk/articles/w … ier-mache/
Always keep in mind that if you miss sealing one tiny, pinpoint spot on an outdoor piece, moisture will enter and ruin your work.

Goddess heads, hmmmm?  Guys can be so picky about things like that.  But show them a stack of skewered Ferraris topped with a voluptuous naked woman, and suddenly they're speaking about 'the meaning of art'.

Welcome to the board.  There are lots of fun people here.

Sue

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#5 2008-10-02 12:41:07

homewitch
Member
From: Cumberland, VA, USA
Registered: 2008-10-01
Posts: 6
Website

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

Thanks for all the advice!  I'm going to have fun here, I can tell. smile

I uploaded a picture of the work in progress to my site; you can see it here:
http://www.homewitch.net/images/eepmspiral.jpg

I don't mind it being a little bit "organic" - I mean, it doesn't have to be filed to a tube-like perfection, but you can probably see what I mean about it needing to be smoothed out a bit.

I appreciate the link to Jackie's article - what a great experiment!  I'm also glad to hear that the info I found before seems right: marine (yacht) varnish for the outdoor stuff.  Makes sense!

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#6 2008-10-02 20:35:16

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

Yes, it could use a bit of smoothing, and I think that 'hand-operated' sandpaper is the best thing to use. 

Another possibility, now that I see what you're doing, is one of those pumice things for smoothing feet--- the kind with a handle. I don't know if it would be rough enough, but they often have them at the Dollar Stores.

It looks like a nice piece of work.  Are you going to paint it or anything?

Sue

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#7 2008-10-03 07:56:46

twinkletoes
Member
Registered: 2008-10-02
Posts: 1

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

hi there, ya could invest in a little DREMMLE or really go for it with the finision i.e. gesso, paint + lots of layers of varnish & it will be real smooth & glassy looking (& classy). goodluck


can anybody fly this thing?

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#8 2008-10-03 10:58:29

homewitch
Member
From: Cumberland, VA, USA
Registered: 2008-10-01
Posts: 6
Website

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

CatPerson wrote:

Yes, it could use a bit of smoothing, and I think that 'hand-operated' sandpaper is the best thing to use.  (((snip))) It looks like a nice piece of work.  Are you going to paint it or anything?

Thanks!

I'm going out today, and never need much prodding to see what can be found at the Dollar Tree, so I'll get one of those pumice stones while I'm there, and give that a try, as well as the sandpaper.  I think I'm just a little paranoid that I'm going to tear it up or something... I'll just have to take it slowly. smile

I am, indeed, going to paint it... green and purple... and I'm going to be hanging three little pm-covered foam balls from it, too.  (This is going to be a mobile.)

If you're wondering what on earth this thing is, it's my best friend's "personal glyph" or sigil.  Here's a picture of one of his painted renderings of it:  http://www.homewitch.net/images/eeglyph.jpg  He has "cleaner" versions of it, but like as not, the thing is generally got that organic feel, which is why I probably shouldn't be stressing overmuch... but since he is one of those innately artistic, creative, style-conscious people, and I kinda have to work at it... I guess I feel like I have a lot to live up to!

Anyway, my friend has used this symbol for years and is currently getting ready to incorporate it into part of the branding for his new business, so I thought it would be cool to have a representation of it hanging in his new house - which he closes on today!  So this is kind of a combination birthday/housewarming/congrats present.

Thanks again for all your suggestions.  It will probably be Monday before I get down and dirty with this thing, but will let you know how it turns out!

PS: I've spent the last two days creating an archway (rolled foil base, anchored in two big empty wine jugs, and covered with PM) for a church ritual tonight.  I'm not quite finished painting, but I think it's looking pretty good for my first-ever "big" (as in large-sized) pm project.  This is fun!

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#9 2008-10-03 11:10:47

homewitch
Member
From: Cumberland, VA, USA
Registered: 2008-10-01
Posts: 6
Website

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

Hi twinkletoes,

I have gesso and plan to use it, along with paint, yeah.  I wondered about finishes, varnish, etc., but I am still a little afraid to choose which kind, worrying over the paint color being distorted, etc.  Guess I'll have to do some more homework before I get to that point!

Good news is, although my friend's birthday is the 12th, I won't see him until the following weekend (he lives in DC; I live in cow-ville, VA!) so I have a little wiggle room on the time it takes for me to finish!

The funniest thing about all this is that my husband, who generally has zero interest in any art projects lying around the house, inspects this silly thing every day to see "how it's coming along."  I  think he's trying to picture in his head what it's going to look like when it's all finished.  He also knows that Eric's remarkably stylish *and* picky, so I think he's probably wondering if I'm going to be able to pull this off....!!

Thanks for the input!

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#10 2008-10-03 16:22:34

Patraw
Member
From: Michigan, USA
Registered: 2008-09-10
Posts: 151
Website

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

I've been using a fine file lately on my stuff, to iron out fine imperfections--I'm finding I like that better than sandpaper, but use whatever works best for you.

I also make extensive use of a woodburner to smoother out my stuff as well, particularly when it's still wet.

Also, a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  If you place a paper strip and you see it resulted in a big wrinkle, I'd recommend ripping it off and reapplying it till it looks better, or applying smaller pieces.

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#11 2008-10-03 19:49:19

homewitch
Member
From: Cumberland, VA, USA
Registered: 2008-10-01
Posts: 6
Website

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

Thanks for the ideas!

It's not so much the wrinkles I'm worried about as it is the... well, I guess I'm wanting it to be more tube-like, more perfectly "round" or something.   But as I said, I'm ok with an organic feel, so it should be ok.

I'm going to play with it some more after the weekend.  Finished my archway except for one more coat of paint just a few minutes ago... this stuff is FUN!

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#12 2008-10-03 23:34:33

CatPerson
Moderator
From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

His sigil is more organic-looking than perfect, so I wouldn't think you would need to do an awful lot more smoothing on it.

Acrylic paint is often the 'safest', as once it's dry, it doesn't run when it's rewet or sealed.  But if you wanted to try other types, you could coat it with gesso (most common brands are a form of acrylic and gypsum or chalk, although the original kind is hide glue and calcium carbonate).  Several coats of gesso can also have a smoothing effect when it is used as a base or a primer layer, before the application of paints, etc. And, since it's white, any colors applied over the top will appear to be more 'true' than paints applied over a darker or mottled foundation paper.

But it is always wise to make a sample piece from the same materials as your art piece (just a flat piece is fine), and try finishes on it  before you continue with your art piece, just in case your finish happens to be incompatible with your adhesive or the kind of paper you used. 

A woman I used to know worked in ceramics.  She would make  flat tiles about 4x4" (10cm x 10cm) of the exact same clay mix she was making her main object from, and test her glazes on them.  Then she would file them in an open cupboard with type of clay and formula for the glaze(s) on the back. This way, she could reference what worked and what didn't.  I think this is an excellent thing to do when we work with PM, too.

Sue

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#13 2008-10-07 22:56:16

dopapier
Moderator
From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Swirly PM project in need of... sanding?

I've been away on holiday so am a bit late in the day on this one.
You can afford to be quite ruthless with any larger bumps, using a file or rasp.  Don't worry about it feathering because you can always paste another strip over.  In this case it is best to just moisten the underlying paper with strong paste first.
Ultimately, fine sandpaper is the answer and then paint as has been talked about.
It looks good and I'm sure he will be delighted.  I would be.
DavidO


I'm a PM addict

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