You are not logged in.
I am completely terrified. I am putting spackle on my project. It is the first time I have ever used it.
The project I am making is super simple. It is just a door stopper piggy bank. (The coins add weight, and it gives you a place to your loose change!. I had made one in the past which we had been using - but my dear boyfriend had an emergency and tore it open to get at the coins. 
I used gesso the last time I made one, and I liked the strength it had to it - but I heard spackle is water-proof and strong so I wanted to give it a try.
I have only made a few papier-mache projects in the past so I am always afraid I am going to ruin the project because I am such a beginner. I would definitely cry if it happened after all the hard work I put into it. :cry:
Does anyone have any spackle advice for me?
Is it just a fact of life that I am going to ruin my first projects while learning the material?
I love this forum, even if it is quiet as a mouse most days. It still has the best papier-mache advice around.
Offline
It is said that you learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes. The first time with a new material always seems scary. If it doesn't work out as you had envisioned, set it aside for a bit, then look at it when you are calmer. Maybe it can be reworked into something unexpected. A pig....
You might be able to turn it into a flying pig.
Or cover it with toothpicks broken in half. You HAVE heard of PORKYPINE PIGS, haven't you? 
And if it's really, really awful, just paint it some horrible color(s) and send it to your worst enemy. Anonymously, of course.....
PM is lightweight. I was working in concrete for a few years. When THAT breaks or doesn't come out right... the garbage men complain about the weight of your can, and you feel so bad that you have to start digging holes in the ground. BIG holes.
Relax and have fun.
Sue
Offline
Not that I have *a lot* of papier-mache experience to pull from - but I am noticing a large difference between working with the spackle and working with gesso in the past. The spackle is so much thinner and I am definitely going to have to put more than one layer of it on.
This has lead me to wonder about the difference between the two. Is spackle better to use than gesso? Can one be more easily sanded than the other? I guess in summary - is one better than the other?
Does anyone have any ideas on this? I have been referring to a lot of papier-mache books but they don't seem to have their mind made up on it. One suggests one, and another book suggests another.
Is there a preference out there?
Offline
Without looking anything up, drawing only from my (faulty) memory:
Spackle is a plaster-based compound. You are mixing it from dry, right? Try thickening it by using less water. Normal use of it (for walls, my only experience) is quite thick, almost like putty. I'm dead sure that it shouldn't be thinner than gesso.
I also think it has additives that make it fairly hard. I'm sure you should be able to sand it, but you'll have to use sandpaper wrapped around a piece of wood for support (just you fingers won't do it), or use an electric sander, like one of those smallish palm sanders.
Since it is plaster-based, I suspect that it might crack if dropped on a hard surface.
For gesso, all of it (not all that much) that I've tried was quite thin. Then I discovered that the main thickener in it is... calcium carbonate (aka whiting, aka ground chalk). If you can find some of that, mix it into the gesso very well, then spread that on. I don't think there are any hard rules on how much to add. "As much as you need" gets my vote.
Modern gesso is from from acrylic. I priced a gallon of it at $50 (faint). When I have some extra money, I plan on getting a can of regular El Cheapo flat acrylic wall paint, and adding a couple of cups or more of calcium carbonate to it to make my own gesso-type product, thickening it to MY satisfaction and uses.
Acrylic gesso is plastic-based, and is much less apt to crack when you drop your project.
Remember, all reports and reviews are welcome here. We can't make ALL the mistakes ourselves....
Sue
Offline
Thanks as always for your reply Sue.
I am actually not mixing it from dry. It came pre-mixed. Maybe my memory is faulty. It has been a while since I worked with gesso.
I really, really need to get my hands on some of that ground chalk. Everyone talks so highly about it. Did I hear correctly from somewhere that you are supposed to mix it in with your paste?
I went with the spackle because it was cheaper than gesso. I am not sure by how much though.
I am glad that I am using it. At least I will finally be able to put the great gesso vs. spackle debate to rest.
Offline
I am completely terrified. I am putting spackle on my project. It is the first time I have ever used it.
[...]
I used gesso the last time I made one, and I liked the strength it had to it - but I heard spackle is water-proof and strong so I wanted to give it a try.
Hello!
I think itīll help to mix the spackle with white PVA glue. It makes the spackle more flexible. I used it only once but it worked really well: First mix warm water with the PVA glue. Then add spackle to it until you get a water-like mixture. Then apply this mixture with a paint brush on your work. After drying you can sand it very easily. I donīt know how much glue you have to put in this mixture... If I find the "recipe" Iīll post it later.
Good luck,
Christina
Offline
Yes, you can mix calcium carbonate with your paste to make it thicker. When you smooth it down, it tends to fill a lot of the little nooks and crannies. Or, you can use your adhesive as usual (for strip layering), then mix the CC with your paste for the final coat, for smoothing the surface. A coat or three of gesso+CC or plain acrylic paint+CC on top of that will get you on your way to a smooth finish. I hate having to sand, so I try to smooth as I go.
If you're doing pulp work instead of strip PM, you can add the CC to the pulp-adhesive mix. It will fill kind of like plaster, but gives you a longer working time, which plaster doesn't.
I still don't understand the WHY of liquid Spackle. ??? What is it's intended use? IMHO, the dry gives you more options.
Sue
Offline
I still don't understand the WHY of liquid Spackle. ??? What is it's intended use? IMHO, the dry gives you more options.
I know I bought it pre-mixed because after not knowing how much water to add to my wallpaper paste I didn't want to risk screwing up again. :oops:
Do you know if I will have any luck getting calcium carbonate at a hardware store, or is there someplace else I should look for it?
Offline
Do you have a pottery supply near you? Some place that has clays and glazes, etc? They should have it, or be able to get it for you. Five pounds should cost only $3-5, and has the dry volume of a 5-lb bag of sugar. It's getting to the point that I use it by tablespoonsful now.
Just don't let them tell you that you need the super-expensive CC that the fine art painters use: An oz or two of that costs about $8. You don't need it that refined.
Sorry that I didn't answer this 'from where?' question in my last post. EBD (early brain death) can be my only excuse... 
Sue
Offline
Just updating on using the spackle - I have totally decided to throw out the paintbrush for application of the second layer and just use gloved hands for applying the spackle instead. (I purchased disposable gloves for using when I work with papier-mache anyway because I heard that getting wallpaper paste on your skin on a regular basis isn't a good idea.)
I find applying the spackle with my hands makes it easier to get it in all the little nooks and crankies of the papier-mache. (Especially that there are a lot more nooks and crankies after my sanding job with the dremel. :oops: )
I figure just a couple more days and I'll be able to purchase some paint and paint it. I also have to figure out what sealer I am going to use to seal it with.
Yay to learning new things, and feeling like I am actually making some progress!
Offline
Just make sure that it is thoroughly dry before sealing it. If you don't, you'll start to see discolored spots under the finish, which is mold growing.
Offline
Just make sure that it is thoroughly dry before sealing it. If you don't, you'll start to see discolored spots under the finish, which is mold growing.
Sue, do you mean to make sure that the spackle is thoroughly dry before sealing it, or the paint?
I think that now that I am putting the spackle on with gloves hands - working with spackle is actually growing on me. I am really enjoying the experience. I find pushing it in that way gets into all the nooks and cranies.
I can't wait for the stores to open up again so I can get some sandpaper and paint.
I am still flip-floppy about what to finish it with, but I'll guess I'll just cross that bridge when I get to it.
Offline
I meant the whole project. It needs to be dry before you seal it. You don't want to trap moisture under the sealer, where the moisture has nowhere to go.
Sue
Offline
How long do you think I should let a medium sized project dry for before I seal it Sue?
Offline
There's no hard and fast rule about that. It can depend on if it's made with paper strips or pulp, how thick it is, what the humidity is, what adhesives you used.
To hurry it up, you could aim a small fan at it. This will keep the air around the project moving, and will help to dry it.
If you haven't got any plastic in it (as central support, or as PVA [white] glue) you could even put it in your oven on the very lowest temperature. I would put an oven thermometer in the oven first, to see just what that temperature is. I would stay under 200F (93C) if possible. Stuff a potholder or mitt in the door so it's left open a crack to release moisture.
Or, if you're baking, set your project on the top of the stove to take advantage of the warmth.
Generally speaking, if you lift it and it's light, and you lay your hand on it and it feels room temperature (not cool), it is probably dry. And if it should be stiff, well.... it should be stiff, and not flex.
In my cool, damp climate, in my cold house, it could probably take WEEKS for something thick to dry. 
So I try to not make things too thick.
Sue
Offline
The Papier Mache Resource All content copyright © 2000 - 2024 the respective authors. Mentions in the media