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Paper pulping

#1 2006-01-12 12:47:52

Laughing Mozzie
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From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Paper pulping

I'm trying my hand at  making papermache mash. A Reader's Digest book discusses using newsprint and boiling the paper until it is soft and pulpy. Another book tells one to use a blender - food processor to blend the boiled paper until it is the consistancy of heavy cream.

Looking at Martin Favreau's article on advanced techniques in the tutorial section I see he uses the blendor technique.

I've tried tearing up sheets of 20 lb bond paper, boiling and blending. I get some tiny pieces and lots of course sand size pieces. The mash when squeezed to remove water seems very lumpy.

Should I allow the mash to dry and then put it dry into a coffee grinder/chopper and chop to the size of coffee grounds? I amn envisioning working with paper that has a consistancy of clothes dryer lint.

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#2 2006-01-13 13:43:20

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paper pulping

I have heard of one person who only soaks the paper in cold water and breaks it up with a paint mixer attachment in a drill.  This way it retains most of the glue used in its manufacture.
Boiling isn't really necessary.  I pour on boiling water and leave it to steep before blitzing.  Paper can be left in water almost indefinitely if you want.
Personally, I always use the cotton linter method.  If you soak the paper, blitz it then spread it on muslin or net curtain or similar;  squeeze out the water with a roller, leaving a thin (5mm?) sheet;  spread it out to dry;  break off pieces as you need them and put them through a coffee grinder;  mix with some ground chalk, ground sawdust and a little linseed oil;  mix in only enough paste (methyl cellulose 70% PVA 30%) as necessary to turn it into a 'clay' . . . . . . . you will have a very strong, smooth mash.   Wet your spreading tool or fingers as you model and you will find you can get a surprisingly smooth surface.
DavidO wink


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#3 2006-01-14 19:26:07

Laughing Mozzie
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From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Re: Paper pulping

I set up my hobby drill press with a paint stirrer to mix and chew up the water and paper. Works like a charm. I have a couple of different paint mixers. One that has four propellor blades stirred the mess around and broke thep paper up into small pieces, and moved the slurry around the pot.

I dewatered the pieces (put an old cotten tee-shirt in a basket strainer, dumped the slurry into the cotten liner and then lifted the wet ball out and squezed the excess water out)

Spread the resulting paper on a fine plastic mesh in front of a hot air duct and dried it.

When I put clumps of the resulting paper bits into the coffee grinder it powders most of the paper but the fluff is so light it doesn't fall back into the blades.  I don't get an even grind. Any suggestions. Most of the ground paper is like dryer lint. I think I am finally on track.

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#4 2006-01-15 11:18:48

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paper pulping

That's great!  For the grinding, I suggest  - don't put very much in the grinder at any one time.  A little will blitz very well.  When it is done, feel it with your fingers, pick out the few lumps and grind them again.  Bingo!


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#5 2006-01-15 16:18:27

Laughing Mozzie
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From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Re: Paper pulping

Back in the early 90's I was a manufacturer's rep for a company in Canada that manufactured pellets for cat litter and industrial liquid spill abosrbent  using old newspapers (thus the name Yesterdays News). I hadn't thought of the product for years. Discussing breaking up paper reminded me how YN is manfactured. I'm thinking it might be terrific for making papermache.

Every day they collect tons of old newspapers. These are fed into a large ball-mill ( large grinder that beat the paper into shreds)  saw-dust is added. Steam is injected. Then then the mix  is extruded out into little 1/8 inch balls. A lot like papercmache less any glues. Made a very aborbant granular material that a substitue for mined products.

I'm going to see if the product is still being sold. It makes sense that the pellets could be fed into a coffee grinder and broken up into 'lint".

Anyone ever tried this approach?

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#6 2006-01-15 17:03:43

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paper pulping

I haven't tried it but it sounds eminently sensible.  Before blizting it, you might try just putting it in some paste, leaving it to soak and then pounding e.g. with a fork.  Let us know how you get on. wink


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#7 2006-01-15 18:07:09

Laughing Mozzie
Member
From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Re: Paper pulping

Taking a few pebbles of paper and blitzing them a few at a time in the coffee grinder is a major time killer. I am expecting to need sheets of wet papermache made from pulp in-aggregate maybe 24 inch by 24 inched and 1/8 inch thick.  I'm hoping the pulp approach won't shrink or wharp as much as using strips of paper. (any comments?)

Would I do just a well just beating wet paper mix longer and speading it out to dry on a screen. I am wondering if having putting it into the cotten wrapper and balling it up to force the water out  didn't creat the lumps.

How do the craftspeople who mold bowls and make large objects from paper pulp make the quantities of fine paper "lint" required for volume work?

Once I have broken the paper down using the paintmixer approach would it save time just to dump that mix into a food blender and puree to minuscule pieces, then spread it out to dry?

I'd like to have papermache made from pulp available in quart quantities at a time. To be applied in 1/16 to 1/8 inch thicknesses.

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#8 2006-01-16 12:16:57

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paper pulping

I tend only to do fairly small amounts of pulp so the coffee grinder method is not onerous.
If you're looking at large amounts, it might be worth considering two or even three qualities, applying them in layers.  So the base layer is coarser and derived just from paint mixer blitzing and the finished layer (applied once the underlayer is dry) is as fine as you can get.  You could then be looking at a finish layer of only 2 or 3 mm thick. yikes


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#9 2006-01-16 14:15:55

Laughing Mozzie
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From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Re: Paper pulping

Layering makes sense. I am trying to figure out how to compensate or control shrinkage of strip layers. My hope was to place a 1/8 inch thick layer of pulp as the foundation against the lold, let it dry, and then add a few layers of paper strips with a final layer of pulp (to be sanded smooth).

My attemps at layering have been bothered by two issues, one is wharping and the more serious issue is shrinking. Think of my mold being a semi-circle 3 inches in diameter. Following applying stirps of  torn newsprint the dried papermache shrinks back from the edges by a 1/4 inch on each side.  I try to keep the paper moderately dry and just wet by the paste but it still gets wet through and shrinks when fully dried. The shape reflects the mold but the edge around the open side pulls back to much.

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#10 2006-01-17 11:49:48

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paper pulping

Make sure your paste is no more wet than it has to be.  Thick cream consistency at least.  Stability is helped if you can extend your layering over the edge of the former for a reasonable distance - and cut it off later.  Also dry between each layer.
I don't see any advantage in layering between pulp layers.
What are you trying to make tongue
DavidO


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#11 2006-03-08 22:49:38

Moni
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From: Boise, ID USA
Registered: 2006-03-08
Posts: 44

Re: Paper pulping

Did you ever try using the yesterdaysnews product. They do still make it, I recently saw it in a store, I think it was Petsmart. I also use large amounts of pulp in some of my items and would love to find a quicker way to make it. Please post results if you actually try it. I usually use old newspaper for my pulp because it is cheap (free).


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#12 2006-03-08 23:56:07

DaveyB
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From: Llyn Peninsula, Wales
Registered: 2006-02-13
Posts: 41
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Re: Paper pulping

...I also use large amounts of pulp in some of my items and would love to find a quicker way to make it...

The quickest way I've found is to throw a whole toilet roll into boiling water. It breaks up all by itself.


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#13 2006-03-09 03:11:38

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Paper pulping

Dopapier, please define "blitzing".  I've never seen the term before, except here.  I COULD BE MISSING SOMETHING IMPORTANT!   big_smile

And if that cat litter is available, maybe it would be a shortcut to making the pulp?

Also, I read somewhere, sometime, that most people put too much paper in the blender (or whatever) and not enough water, and they don't blend it long enough, so they get small lumps rather than a smooth mix.  (Once again, I am being flogged by a stranger for not having enough PATIENCE!)

The shrinkage problem bothers me, too.  As soon as I get the whiting, I will try it and see if that makes any difference.

Sue

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#14 2006-03-12 12:45:27

Laughing Mozzie
Member
From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Re: Paper pulping

At last I located one pound boxes of whiting in the paint department of a local hardware store. I was surprised the home Depot type stores didn't know what whiting was. Most insisted I must have heard lighting:)


I bought "commercial whiting" described as a mild abrasive and scouring powder, paint extender , paint thickener.
The also list; "English Chalk Whiting" to be mixed into linseed oil to make common putty.

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#15 2006-03-12 15:48:27

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Paper pulping

"Home Depot type stores ... insisted I must have heard lighting."

(heeheehee!)
I no longer ask advice of HD employees, and don't even trust them when they say they don't have something.  Most of them simply don't know what they have, or if they do have it, what it's for or how to use it.

My 5 lbs of whiting is in ($3) -- now I just have to get up there to pick it up.

Let us know how you use it and the results?

Sue

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#16 2006-03-12 16:21:23

julie tretakoff
Member
From: Tucson, Az
Registered: 2005-09-24
Posts: 17

Re: Paper pulping

CatPerson and Laughing Mozzie can you list name, location and phone number where youpurchased powdered gesso.

I am having no luck in Tucson, AZ.

Julie

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#17 2006-03-13 04:41:43

CatPerson
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From: Washington State, U.S.A.
Registered: 2006-01-09
Posts: 1314

Re: Paper pulping

Julie, gesso is so expensive that I can't afford it (around $50/gal).  I asked a person who knew something at a local art/pottery supply store what the difference was between  acrylic gesso and plain acrylic paint.  She said that the gesso has calcium carbonate in it.  So I am going to buy some inexpensive white acrylic paint and add calcium carbonate to it, and use it as gesso on my PM. 

Please understand that neither one are TRUE old-fashioned gesso, which is made from rabbit skin glue and calcium carbonate (and maybe other stuff), and that is even more expensive than the acrylic gesso -- if you can find it.

If you want to try the same thing, ask around for some powdered CALCIUM CARBONATE which is the same as GROUND CHALK which is the same thing as WHITING.  Many people will only recognize one or two of those names, and if you don't name something they know, they can't/won't help you.

Fine art supply stores may carry whiting in a one-ounce bottle for $8.  You don't want that! $$$!  I ordered 5 lbs of it for $3, which my local store ordered from The Clay Art Center in Tacoma, WA.  But this stuff is used for all kinds of stuff, so check around.  It's used to change the pH of water in aquariums, so check tropical fish stores.  It's used in pottery, so check your local potters or pottery supply houses.  I think it's also used for paint, so go to a regular paint store like Sherwin-Williams or Kelly-Moore (not Home Depot or Lowes, etc).  This stuff should be as common as dirt, so you shouldn't have to pay enormous shipping costs from several states away.  You just need to find someone who knows what you're talking about.

Sue

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