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Paste

#1 2005-11-20 17:34:13

Laughing Mozzie
Member
From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Paste

I have been using pre-mixed paste. I just tried making my own wheat paste. Flour, boiling water, alum with PVA glue added to finished mix. I have a thick creamy paste. Howeveri, it lacks any adhesive "tack".
Newspaper  lies down and molds and sticks "sort of", heavy wrapping paper just doesn't hold down. Strips of heavy paper lift (de-laminate) and dry with air bubbles under the paper.

any suggestions?

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#2 2005-11-20 18:39:37

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paste

Personally I wouldn't touch wheat paste now.  Wallpaper paste every time about 70% to 30% PVA in thick cream.  I have no problem with separation of layers.
Also, Tammi does wonderful things with tapioca paste.  Perhaps she might consider putting her recipe on here. smile


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#3 2005-11-20 20:08:22

Laughing Mozzie
Member
From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Re: Paste

I have been Googling re:  wallpaper paste. I see a number of articles describing wallpaper pastes as being either cellulose or wheat based. In the tables of binding power the wheat has better gluing power.

Tapioca paste, how is that different? How is it made?

Are you buying powered wallpaper paste?

I see from Googling that waterglass is also used in papiermache. One site described waterglass as being made from gelatine. They said it was very waterproof.

Another site said to mix powdered plastic resin glue in with the wheat paste. Yet another site suggested using PVA glue right from the bottle.

Can I just re-heat the paste I made and add more flower to make it thicker?

Anyone made paste using corn starch or liquid starch?



--

BTW
dopapier, Thanks for the fast reply.

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#4 2005-11-21 18:26:17

dopapier
Moderator
From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paste

Waterglass is a solution of potassium or sodium silicate in water, used as protective coating, an adhesive, and (especially formerly) for preserving eggs;  sometimes known as isinglass.  Therefore it is not gelatine, which is an animal product.
Wallpaper paste is made up from a powder.  In the USA I think it is known as hydrated cellulose (or something like that). 
I guess you could heat up your paste without problems but it might be better to make a separate batch and mix them perhaps.
PVA can be used on its own.  Try some.  (I nearly said 'suck it and see' but that might not be sensible!!)
DavidO


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#5 2005-11-21 19:20:53

butterbee
Member
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2005-04-08
Posts: 208

Re: Paste

I am with dopapier. I use wallpaper paste and PVC glue for my paste mixture. I have always heard about flour molding, so have just stayed away from using it in any projects.

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#6 2005-11-22 00:55:16

Laughing Mozzie
Member
From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Re: Paste

With the advent of "pre-pasted" wallpaper finding paste is more difficult than expected. Home Depot here has some very old and small packages of cellulose wallpaper paste. My last wallpapering was five years ago and my bucket of pre-mixed paste is now empty. Thus my attempts to make my own.

Is there a way post digital pictures of projects on this site? I take digital pictures. Might be interesting to share construction photos.

My first papermache model boat hull has shrunk:) It no longer fits backover the master plug.  However they are so easy to lay-up I'll do another one and this tme keep it on the plug until fully dried.

The boat hull is "round bottomed" so it has strength and shape stability  from being a curved structure. The cabin (deck house) has free standing flat sides. Has anyone suggestions of making flat sheets paper mache which don't warp?

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#7 2005-11-23 16:15:46

dopapier
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From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paste

The old packets of cellulose paste should be OK.  Hydrogenated cellulose is the term over the pond, I'm sure.
It ain't easy making non warping sheets.  The bigger they are, the worse it'll get.  However, there are ways of improving it.  Use a reasonably strong board of ply or MDF to the size you want.  Ensure a release by using clingfilm or a layer of non pasted paper.  Layer all around the board, both sides and over the edges.  Thoroughly dry between each two layers.  Make it as strong as you need.  Finally cut through the edge.  Hopefully the resulting sheet will be flat.  Let us know how you get on.
The way of posting pictures is to creat a gallery page.  Each picture allows a title and description.
OK? tongue


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#8 2005-11-23 16:57:46

Laughing Mozzie
Member
From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Re: Paste

I am learning. My original papermache hull was good, but thin. I decided to add a few layers of paper from shopping bags to make it stiffer and thicker. Now that is has dried it has rolled up and way out of shape. The next one I will leave on the "plug" until everything is laid-up and fully dried hard.

would coating with papermache using ground up paper instead of strips be less subject to shrinking or warping?

I've worked with fiberglass lay-ups in boat building an model building and can handle warping issues in that medium. However, glass doesn't shink, while paper does if stretched.

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#9 2005-11-25 17:41:48

dopapier
Moderator
From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paste

I'm surprised you're getting that level of warp.  Are you keeping the whole thing as dry as possible.  The paste should be a smear and barely damp the paper.
Pulp?  Again, it will depend on how wet you make it.  Look at the tutorial by Martin Favreau and see the fine, porcelain finish mix, or mail me for a more detailed recipe.  Apply a thin layer, then two or three more if necessary. smile


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#10 2005-11-26 16:02:20

Laughing Mozzie
Member
From: New England, USA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 25

Re: Paste

If you only damp the paper with the paste how do you get the paper to confirm to curves?

I thought the idea was to release the fibers of the paper by wetting. I have been building up my hull by layering the glue and paper. I brush the paste onto the surface, then lay torn strips of newsprint on top of that surface. Then using a brush I brush paste onto the paper. As i brush the paste onto the paper the paper wets out and conforms to the surface shape. In a few minutes the paper is saturated and looks wet. After a layer or two I let the hull dry. The paper does shrink and tighten on the mold.

Currently I am trying some different approaches. I laid-up three layers of paper.  Then let it dry infront of a hot air heating duct. Th layup was pretty smoothj.

I made a creamy 50/50 mix of finishing spackle and paste. Then I painted the papermache with a very thin coating of the mix and set it aside to dry.  When dried the mix had surface cracked the papermache in a couple of places (shrinkage over a hard plug). I sanded the surface to remove any high spots. Now I have addred two new layers of PM.

It is now on my bench drying. I notice there are spots where the paper has air  "bubbles" between layers. Expect when the PM dries it will shrink back and be-solid. Am I expecting to much?

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#11 2005-11-26 17:13:51

dopapier
Moderator
From: UK
Registered: 2004-12-04
Posts: 754

Re: Paste

Breaking down the fibres - not really necessary if you're layering.  You can, however, if using thicker paper (bond or kraft), dip it in water, crumple and squeeze it; tease it flat again and let it dry.  It will then be more mouldable than before.
Are you perhaps laying quite large pieces of paper?  The idea is to lay pieces that are of such a size that they won't kink over curvatures.
Brushing may be too gentle.  By all means use a brush but you need to work the paper in firmly, with your finger or the back of a spoon for example.
If you find any air bubbles when it has dried, slit the centre with a sharp knife, insert a little paste, smooth it firmly and leave to dry.
lol DavidO


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#12 2005-11-26 19:47:24

butterbee
Member
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2005-04-08
Posts: 208

Re: Paste

dopapier: Thanks for your solution on how to deal with air bubbles. I always wondered what to do with them. I would always just push them down by trying to add a lot of paste to them. But your solution makes a LOT more sense.  :oops:

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